Just before Christmas, I met with Elizabeth Johnston at a restaurant to discuss creativity.
This was a great topic because Johnston has the Own Your Creativity site, where she leads a “memoir in a month” challenge every November.
She also works as a self-actualization consultant and story coach. Access her skills for success programs to help business leaders at http://www.elizabeth-johnston.com/.
To listen to her “Own Your Creativity” podcast episodes, go to https://ownyourcreativity.podbean.com/.
I think that creativity comes from the individual but is informed by the collective. And then after it’s shaped by the individual and goes back into the collective.
It seems as though there’s some kind of fluidity. I think that the best thing is that it goes back to the collective and that it starts a conversation or adds to do it and then it comes back.[00:01:20] Perhaps a lot of times people do things and it just falls flat and it doesn’t get any response and that speaks to the really important part of marketing yourself. Today you really need to get out there and make connections with people. [00:01:48] So when you’re marketing yourself and what you do, it isn’t a solo activity. It’s important to really engage other people and get them involved with what you’re doing. [00:01:59] You can’t create in a vacuum. You can’t be successful in that no one is successful by themselves. It’s a very interactive thing to do to be an artist, to be a writer but also just to be a human being.
I started the podcast two and a half years ago because I wanted to explore how creativity manifests itself in other people’s lives. So I talked to all sorts of people in all walks of life. Not just typical or stereotypical artists and drummers or creatives or that. I talked to philosophers, business people and everyone in between.[00:07:22] And it was an extension really of my teaching. I teach creative writing. I’ve been teaching creative writing, screenwriting and all other types of writing for about twenty-five years now. And I also teach a University Course Skills for Success and it’s mainly to help students to get back on track with their academic goals. But what I’ve realized over the years is that a lot of them fail out of their programs or don’t have the motivation to show up for their lives because they’re not passionate about something. They haven’t activated that creative core of themselves. [00:08:11] Oh wow. So in many ways, it’s like a class about helping them discover their creative core. It really is. [00:08:18] And and it was interesting to me that that’s those two things converged because on the face of it like creative writing and time management and putting a schedule together, but I realized that it’s so important to have that organizational ability because when you create a schedule and set out a goal and action plan, that’s the container for your creativity. That’s what’s going to hold your dreams. [00:08:53] It’s way easier to be creative if you have a structure that you’re already building with. If you have to create your structure, you spend it sort of like, how we have a level of will power a day, I think we have a level of creativity in a day too. And if you’re creating all sorts of minor things, you don’t get the chance to actually think deeply. How can you build passion without deep thought?
[00:12:47] Remember all those lines we had to stand in being bored and talking with everyone around you, they don’t have to do that anymore. They can actually be entertained even when they are in that kind of situation.
What happens when a software specialist starts working for a non-profit organization that runs seniors homes?
If he’s Rishad Quazi, you get a clean website with Google analytics despite a few hassles setting it up plus a new board member and volunteer who serves lunches and dinners at resident events and during holidays.
Quazi has specialized in fitting-in to new environments ever since he and his mom escaped war-torn East Pakistan when he was only a-year-and-a-half years old. Since then, he’s lived in Scotland, Malaysia, Singapore, New York, Toronto, Seattle, San Francisco and Vancouver and elsewhere. Each time he moves to a new local, he makes friends, learns to fit into the community, and makes a home.
For years, he specialized in helping large companies use technology to build relationships among team members and with their clients. Now, he’s taking his expertise to the non-profit sector with his company Quazimodo.com. He helps them with whatever technology they need, which most often consists of a website and Facebook.
I particularly tend to focus on Facebook just because of the sheer volume of users that are on the system across the demographic board,” he says. “I know certain campaigns tend to focus on different media such as YouTube or Twitter. Those types of things I’ve just found personally that most of my clients and most of their audience tends to visit Facebook the most.
First he trains them how the system works. He helps them decide the best way to present themselves on Facebook.
Do they want to be a personality? Do they want to represent themselves as a group or do they want to do both? I personally would recommend both.”
Each page on a website needs to be clear to ensure that users know what to do.
My personal approach to most design work is minimalism not too minimalistic but enough to get the user engaged, involved and make things stupidly obvious. That’s the neatest way I can put it. I see a lot of websites that are just way too busy. Yeah. Way too many things going on way too many little distractions and if it gives me a headache I tend to just shut it down right away.”
Quazi says that nonprofits need to respond to each and every query and ensure to filter out bad content or inappropriate posts and keep their page active.
I think I was saying before, the most important thing that I try to convey to my clients is that they need to be consistent regardless of which platform they choose to communicate via. So in other words posting if not every day at least a couple of times a week. Post things that are focused and targeted towards your ideal audience or who your perspective leads might be.”
One thing that’s always impressed me most about Canada is the welcoming nature of the people. It is comprised of people from all walks of life from all different ethnicities and stories just like mine who’ve lived all over the world or have ties to places all over the world and you get a much richer sense of that in Canada versus my experiences living in different parts of the US. As you just walk down the street, you see people from everywhere whereas you may not see the same elsewhere.
For a person like me who’s grown up all over the world, that makes me feel comfortable. It makes me feel like I fit in like I’m not you know sticking out like a sore thumb. And even if I did, I’ve lived in places where I stick out. But you’re just a regular person. You are just treated like a regular person. You have the same rights as anybody else. Quite honestly when I travel abroad with my Canadian passport it just gets me a different level of acknowledgement and respect from people. And that’s a good feeling.”
Visit Rishad Quazi at his website.
We are now well into the twenty-first century. The hopes and dreams of our ancestors are well within reach or even surpassed. So where do we go from here?
Personally, I’m inspired in part by the words of preeminent feminist scholar and philosopher Mary Wollstonecraft. Wollstonecraft lived in London, Britain between April 27, 1759, and September 10, 1797. (One of her children, Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley, is the famous writer of Frankenstein.)
Wollstonecraft’s first commercial success was a political pamphlet. She wrote “A Vindication of the Rights of Men” in 1790 to respond to Edmund Burke’s “Reflections on the Revolution in France”. In it, she wrote:
In life, an honest man with a confined understanding is frequently the slave of his habits and the dupe of his feelings, whilst the man with a clearer head and colder heart makes the passions of others bend to his interest; but truly sublime is the character that acts from principle, and governs the inferior springs of activity without slackening their vigour; whose feelings give vital heat to his resolves, but never hurry him into feverish eccentricities.
‘During, 2019, I will focus on “acting from principle” and “governing the inferior springs of activity without slackening their vigour.”
I summarize those ideas with the word “peaceful.”
Before focusing on 2019, I think it’s worth reflecting on what happened in 2018.
Last year’s word for me was “active.” Eventually, the word helped me succeed with several projects. Early in the year, however, I struggled to figure out what to do with my ambitions.
I don’t know what to do with my government action intentions yet, and this problem really stopped me early in 2018. Part of my problem stems from a bruised ego after losing the municipal election late in 2017. There’s a bigger issue with my identity too though. During the election campaign, I gave up a long-held conviction for neutral observance as a journalist and became a clearly biased wannabe politician. Both personas enabled me to share a passion for public service, but neutral journalism is no longer possible. Since I don’t want to practice opinionated journalism either, I haven’t yet figured out how to evolve further. For most of 2018, I avoided writing about municipal politics altogether. I didn’t write much journalism at all in 2018, as you’ll know if you’ve been following the Arialview blog or The Suburban.
I continued writing, although primarily for clients. Those contracts enabled me to study behavioural science, the collaborative economy and how people participate in a just, democratic society. Much of the resulting work will be published over the next two years.
I also began speaking and teaching people how to write well in 2018 and this will continue in earnest in 2019.
The earliest speaking gig took place in February along with two other members of Genealogy Ensemble.
My favourite of these was a group presentation to the British Isles Family History Society of Greater Ottawa (BIFHSGO) group back in February. The presentation took place in a wonderful venue, The Chamber, Ben Franklin Place, 101 Centrepointe Drive, Ottawa, Ontario. Afterwards, we met with the organization’s writing group and received a warm welcome there also.
I recently turned my portion of the presentation at that event into a free course called “Four Steps to Profile Your Ancestors.” It only takes 23 minutes to go through it. Let me know what you think!
Also, BIFHSGO has another wonderful presentation in the same space two weekends from now. Two sisters, Kristen den Hartog and Tracy Kasaboski will be speaking about how they combined their family history research into a book called “The Cowkeeper’s Wish.” Unfortunately, I can’t attend the presentation, which is open to the public and takes place from 10 until 11:30 am on Saturday, January 12. To keep up with the sisters’ work, however, I’ve signed up for updates when they add to their blog, thecowkeeperswish.com.
Another highlight from 2018 took place on April 26 when the Montreal Press Club celebrated its 70th anniversary by awarding jailed Saudi Arabian blogger Raif Badawi with its first ever Freedom Award.
It was such an honour to have dinner with his wife Ensaf Haider and his children Maryam, Doudi and Najwa, who now live in Sherbrooke.
Controversial philosopher Jordan B. Peterson also spoke at the event.
A month later, on May 28, the City of Montreal made Badawi an honourary citizen of the city.
Every Friday at noon, they hold a vigil at the Sherbrooke City Hall to bring Badawi to Canada so that he can be reunited with his wife and children. Friday will be the 158th such event.
I can’t wait to welcome Badawi to Canada.
After that event, activities with the Urban Abundance Solidarity Cooperative (CAUS) took over my schedule.
My work with CAUS last year featured a compost project, farmers’ markets, shared gardens and a new member retail outlet at Verdun’s Municipal Greenhouse. Our membership is growing and we extended our Wednesday farmers’ markets into the autumn, a pilot project that will continue in 2019.
Members also re-elected me onto the board of Grand Potager, the non-profit that has turned the municipal greenhouses into an urban agriculture resource centre. The 2018 year marked the first of self-sustaining operations for the new organization. Our 2019 goal will be fundraising to replace the older production greenhouses. That’s been a joy to be a part of.
I’m going to continue exploring how Canada can become more self-sufficient, particularly when it comes to food. I’m excited about continuing the farmers’ markets, compost project and member retail centre with CAUS. I also have two additional projects planned—fruit baskets and a local food application.
The year 2018 also marked the beginning of my audio investigation of what it means to be Canadian. During the year, I spoke to courageous people working hard to make our country stronger and kinder while making sure that their own lives have meaning.
It’s a great honour to continue working on that project in the coming year.
I also plan to continue exploring the nature of truth as “that which corresponds to reality.” My work encouraging Canadians to create Notable Nonfiction in the fields of business, genealogy and journalism will continue.
I’m also planning to explore and promote the incredible leaps and bounds we’re taking in the fields of high tech and artificial intelligence while working equally hard to protect human health. There’s no doubt that we are all undergoing a giant experiment right now, and I’m committed to reconciling the two realities.
Part of that work will be the long-awaited book about how Canada changed because of World War II. If you’d like to be among the beta readers, please let me know.
In the meantime, enjoy the beginning of what I hope will be a wonderfully productive year.
For me, I’m particularly inspired by Thomas Paine’s argument that each of us is born with equal rights and that the state must protect those rights while giving us the ability to keep control over its efforts through voting and other democratic innovations.
I also agree with Jean-Paul Sartre that each of us must choose what we do with our lives to ensure meaning. Simone de Beauvoir’s extension of his ideas to encourage women to recognize our own freedom and in doing so free ourselves from a society whose rules and values have traditionally stemmed from men.
So, here’s to freedom and meaning in 2019.
As Breast Cancer month began, I spoke with MUHC Foundation President Julie Quenneville for my podcast. Our discussion can be heard here.
Most of our conversation covers the needs met by the annual Enchantée fundraiser for the MUHC Breast Clinic wellness program. This year’s event takes place next Thursday, October 18th, 2018 at the Le Mount Stephen from 6:00-8:00 p.m.
Tickets cost $200 each and can be purchased online.
The event is important enough for Montreal that I also prepared a story for the Suburban.
Julie and I are friends and members of the same club, so you’ll probably notice that some of my questions reflect a deep admiration of her work. Yet I’ve never before heard her talk about her Canadian identity and her work with the Banff Forum trying to figure out why kind of country we want to live in. Just goes to show you that podcasts can reveal fascinating facets of people.
Here’s the transcript of our conversation.
Julie Quenneville: [00:01:09] So we do a lot of fundraising that is globally for the priority needs of the MUHC. And we also do some very targeted fundraising that is for certain diseases departments and linked to of course the priority needs of those areas. So this event is particular to support the breast center and its own priorities. It’s a great opportunity to engage not only the staff, the physicians but also the patients and their families in a fundraising initiative. So when you’re very targeted, it allows them to feel like they’re giving back and really working towards a common goal. It can be quite empowering for the patients.
How did it start?[00:02:01] Well it was the committee that the three co-chairs actually sitting down with physicians and it started off with very specific needs. So not people in general but a need that is not being met in the community and that’s lymphedema. Have you ever heard of that? [00:02:20] No.
And so we actually have the Canadian lead physician who has been really leading the battle to get lymphedema care covered across the country. Her name is Dr. Anna Tower. And so it was in meetings obviously with Doctor Tower throughout the last couple of years, our foundation has always covered those services. I would say probably for the last decade. And in the breast center, we cover the services for our patients as well. And so anyone who is afflicted with this is at least will have access to care.
Now that’s not good enough. I think everyone else in the province should have access, but at least we’re doing our part in making sure that our patients are taken care of.
So the conversation started with lymphedema and saying to ourselves well with the patients how do we make sure that these services continue because they’re not covered by government and what else can we do to not only improve the survival rate but also improve their quality of life post-surgery and treatment?[00:04:30] So I just looked at a picture of what lymphedema is. This is extreme. The picture I’m looking at looks extreme in various ways. One just makes it look kind of blotty and then right up to legs that are clearly five times bigger than what they were prior to the disease. [00:04:59] For breast cancer patients, it would be mostly the arms, because it’s in the areas that you remove the lymph nodes, and in breast cancer that would be the arms. But it’s a high number 25 percent. In all the cancers, ovarian cancer and breast cancer, patients are the most affected by this. [00:08:32] I can see why they don’t want to leave home. They’ve become a whole different person and they’ve already just gone through a very traumatic situation anyway because they’ve just survived breast cancer. [00:08:40] Their quality of life is affected.
So we have three co-chairs. So Cynthia Price and Jo Anne Rudy have been heavily involved in the Quebec Breast Cancer Foundation throughout probably the last 20 years and Anna is a breast cancer survivor. So you know they were personally touched by these issues.
So, on top of the lymphedema services, the funds raised from this event—this is the second annual event—are going to the wellness program.
So that includes lymphedema but it also goes above and beyond. It includes:
Now I noticed last year you raised 120,000 dollars.
Exactly. That was our first event.
Yeah and how many patients would that cover
I don’t know off the top of my head but we can certainly pull that number and get back to you.
Okay perfect. And I noticed that this particular event is taking place at the Mount Stephen on October 18, which is a pretty good location. Was it there last year as well?[00:10:31]It was there last year as well. They’ve been a very good partner. It’s a very nice place and as you know it’s important in these fundraising events to find something that is central and is a bit different from other events. [00:10:39] So you had 200 guests last year. Do you know how many people are reserved so far this year? [00:10:43] We’re still in the middle of the sale. So we’re still confident to be able to surpass last year.
So this year we’ve added a partner foundation. We’re always striving to collaborate with others because that’s the best way to help our patients. So the Cedar’s Cancer Foundation, which is a foundation of the MUHC, has joined forces with us to make this event even more successful. The Cedar Cancer Foundation is heavily involved with the Rossy Cancer Network, which you know if you look back in past announcements, is funded obviously by the Rossy family and is a way to break down the silos between the MUHC, McGill, JJH and St. Mary’s for Cancer Care and all of the foundations related also contribute to the pot. Any time there is a funded project everyone is engaged and everyone contributes financially, including the Rossy Network.[00:11:35] OK. So then you have a network of people who are already behind your project when it gets launched.
In all of cancer, because the patients flow through these various areas, you know we have incredible complementarity where we don’t duplicate the services. There are certain cancers which we are specialized in. Certain cancers will go to the Jewish. And of course, there are some cancers that go to St. Mary’s. So this way we make sure that the patients are always in the best place and are being treated by the best team possible for their cancer.[00:11:59] Did you find last year that there were new partners this year because of the event last year? [00:12:06] Well it allowed us to start a conversation. And that’s that’s the key right? Even though we’re not raising millions through a fund-raising event, it allows us to meet patients who are interested in giving back and interested in getting involved. Absolutely there were many conversations that went in other directions and many many of the attendees became important donors as well to the program. [00:12:27] Well and then what happens in your job I think we have got a higher level in your job you actually handle a heck of a lot of events. How do you handle it? I mean just give me a sort of an overview of a day in your life it can’t be easy because everything is so emotional. I mean you’re dealing with life and death.
So a day in my life is every day I meet physicians, nurses or patients who are looking to work together to find solutions. But it’s also empowering Tracey.
There’s always no one of the things I learned in being in health care for this long is that there’s always a way to make it work. If you get everybody around the table engaged in finding a solution, you do find a solution, and that’s empowering.[00:13:43] Can you give me an example of something like that? Perhaps something not connected to this event. But in terms of something that looks like a very difficult situation that you were able to find a solution?
So he had a patient at one point and there were quite a few publications around this case, who came from one of the regions of Quebec so out of the McGill Territory who was 32 years and who was in palliative care at the time and no physician he had seen was able to identify the source so they had to put him into palliative care. For a father, that’s difficult to swallow at 32 years old. It turns out what he had was basically thrush in his brain. It’s really hard to get rid of thrush. It turns out that through the work that our physician did, he mixed medication and eventually he found that a mixture of two medications for other diseases actually worked for this patient and he was sent home to be with his family. And this is a physician that we fund heavily because of course, this kind of research is so ultra=specialized that it takes a lot of tender loving care but it’s very encouraging because it reminds us that we are able to pull off miracles when we have dedicated people.
So is that patient is still alive. Has he become one of your donors?
I can’t tell you that, because obviously, that information is confidential.[00:15:23] But he is certainly unbelievably grateful and I’m sure every time he tells his story about what happened to him and his family it is important for the hospital and also important for Montreal.
It is a very very very powerful story and it shows that if you keep working hard, there are miracles. Not very many people think about a fundraiser as a miracle worker.
Well, we make the difference as a foundation we make the difference between quality and excellence. We fund innovation.[00:16:04] There is no government budget to fund innovation. That is really the drive that the community has. There’s also no budget in the government for development of new equipment. So when there’s a piece of equipment a new piece of technology on the market, the foundations support that. The existing budget is really just for the replacement of the existing platform. So what we do is we make the difference between quality care and excellent care which is what we all want and what we should all demand. [00:16:37] And well how much do you have specific about how much your foundation supports above and beyond the budget of the MUHC. [00:16:50It’s important to note that we don’t fund items that are covered in the operating budget. We always cover what’s above and beyond. So just to make sure that we don’t confuse that. We raised last year 24 billion in revenue plus our investments. So that was a record-breaking year for us. That’s a 25 percent increase in revenue. [00:17:17] Congratulations.
How long have you been there?[00:17:24] It’ll be three years in October.
So that result is really in part due to your leadership. You can take credit for a lot of that.
It’s thanks to the entire team, the staff, the board and the physicians who are working with us that we were able to have that kind of success.[00:18:29] Now donors are all patients.
Do you have a relationship with any of the francophone funders or foundations? Do you do any joint projects?[00:18:50] So we’ve had a very long joint corporate campaign with the CHUM Foundation and this was to build the two new hospitals. It was a great success. We had a wonderful collaboration between the two foundations and the two institutions and we have you know we are preparing now for our next big fund-raising initiatives and some of them will be in collaboration not only with them but we hope with other hospitals across the province. The funding agents across the country for research are asking for it and the donors are asking for it as well that we work more and more together. So we plan to do that.
I also sit on the board of directors with a really important group called the Banff Forum where we strive to find solutions to break down those barriers across the country from east to west. We’re meeting next week and this is part of on my personal time one of the areas that I find most important and I hope to be able to contribute.
We should be defining what kind of country we want to live in in the next 20, 30 years. So it’s a group of very very passionate young Canadians.
Although I’m not so young, they are very young and very engaged. We meet officially for a conference once a year, but we have many chapter provincial meetings as well and seminars. We talk about the environment and indigenous issues. We talk about politics. Many politicians from every party come and speak with us as well to be able to have that diversity of conversation. We talk about culture. And it’s really about building that curiosity and seeking solutions and all of the members who—we are very careful to welcome the members that represent different diversity of different age groups and different cultural backgrounds and make sure that these are all individuals that are also incredibly engaged in their communities and so they bring back this information and knowledge to their own work into their networks.
And so the meeting next week is actually in Yellowknife. We’re going to Inuvik first and then in Yellowknife. We’ll be visiting from villages communities and we’ll be hearing from them are their challenges and seeing it for ourselves. I’m hoping to have some time to go visit some of the clinics that are there as well. And somehow, of course, it’s impossible not to have an impact on perception.[00:26:40] We’re all very anxious to hear from them Yeah exactly. Well, will you have any presentations about your experience in the future?
None are planned.[00:26:53] This is a closed group because we want to make sure that everyone can speak very openly. But of course, you know you cannot leave such an event without changing as a person in your own perception changes. So I’d be happy to speak with you afterwards if you’d like. [00:27:14] That would be wonderful thank you very much.
This week, I’m publishing my interview with Brad Semmelhack, a portfolio manager with Crystalline Management, an alternative investment house in Montreal. Crystalline celebrates 20 years of existence this month. Congratulations, Mark, Brad and the team.
Brad and I spoke in a room at the top of a tower on Sherbrooke Street looking out over the city. It was stunningly beautiful.Listen to Unapologetically Canadian Episode 10: Alternative Investing with Bradley Semmelhaack
A transcript of our conversation follows, but if, like me, you want to brush up on some finance industry basics first, check out investment basics from the Financial Consumer Agency, the pdf “Investment at a glance” from the Canadian Securities Administrators and the Bank of Canada’s portrait of hedge funds in Canada.
Here’s the transcript:
[00:01:25] Thank you Tracey. Yeah, Crystalline. We’re actually celebrating our 20th year and it was founded by my partner and CEO Marc Amirault who had worked for 15 years at the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec and decided to take the strategy that he was implementing at the Caisse to a smaller business to fulfill a dream if you will and to be able to have more flexibility and do his own thing really and be independent.
You know there’s got to be five or six different regulators that oversee us between people who are looking for tax evaders in the United States, terrorists who are trying and trying to hide their money in different places, etc. The AMF we’re trying to make sure that we do things according to the rules the RCMP are making sure that we’re not that there are no fraudsters.[00:18:29] You know we get an awful lot of people. I’m often told. Hey, you hedge funds you’re not you’re not regulated. Nobody oversees you and I’m like OK how many times you’ve been audited in the last 20 years? And they’ll say oh I don’t know auditors by the AMF. Well, maybe once or twice and I’ll say they typically come in here every four years. And the last time they spent three weeks, four of them. [00:18:48] So wow. So please don’t tell me that I am not regulated because they went through every single piece of paper we had with a fine tooth comb and they made sure that everything was was on the level and copacetic and cross-referenced.
What is their stake in this and what outcome is best for them? Who has control over this outcome and what’s the best outcome for them. And how much control do they have on making that outcome happen?[00:27:59] And that’s usually that’s usually the best path towards the most likely outcome no matter how difficult it is to get to that outcome or how unlikely it might seem. That’s usually what comes about. [00:28:16] That’s an awesome answer. It’s a philosophical answer too that it fits into many things, not just finances. [00:28:22] Well it’s just you know it’s amazing that you know the people who control the company if they have a lot of stock that stock that company is not going bankrupt. If they have no stock, the company is likely to go bankrupt. If they own bonds, that portion of the capital structure will be protected. If there’s a bank in there, and the bank owns management, well the bank’s going to be protected. [00:28:59] And anything is possible. And you know even with all the regulatory oversight, it’s very often there are fait accomplit that happens and then once you’re put into that situation, it doesn’t really matter what came before, there’s a new reality and that’s the new reality. [00:29:19] A good example was in the case of Bell Canada when they were supposed to be taken over. Way back over 10 years ago. That was a case that went all the way to the Supreme Court where the bondholders had been assured with personal knowledge personally in their offices staring in the eyes from the management of the company that the company would never ever do anything that would that would risk their investment grade credit. And that’s why it was not necessary to put into writing and legal form protections against a leveraged buyout that would that would compromise the value of those bonds. [00:30:01] And it went all the way to the Supreme Court that the company was allowed to go against the word that they gave. It went back and forth. [00:30:09] That was it was that was the so-so verbal contracts no longer exist at least not, in that case, one or even written contracts today can go against Oh no no. [00:30:21] If any legal laws. I mean we had a bankruptcy where we had to go to court and prove that there was a there where the bank was going to charge for a loan for a loan in bankruptcy too much. [00:30:40] And the judge had approved that because it was a very big company within a very tight spot. [00:30:48] And that was the only option for the company was to accept the terms of that loan and we had to really do an awful lot of legal work in that court to have that amount reduced. Wow. [00:31:05] And it was it was like the judge said yes this loan is too expensive but I’m going to accept it because that’s the company’s the money tomorrow morning if not it stops the company from operating. [00:31:19] And that is you know that is often an overriding principle. And. [00:31:25] OK. So whether that company that is very much like bankruptcy law or whether they were in bankruptcy. [00:31:31] And yeah you have to you know a lot of a lot is often said about capital markets and you know investors want this and investors want that. [00:31:39] But in Canada the responsibility of the people running the company which is ultimately the directors who are who are responsible. Their responsibility is to the corporation and its stakeholders and in the law, that is often applied as being very much including suppliers and employees and the business and the I mean the whole point to law is to allow businesses to continue. So it makes sense that when something comes before a court that the overriding philosophy of a judge should be how is this going to continue? How is this process going to end so that it has the best outcome for the Canadian economy and that is the judges really go to a lot of trouble to try and see through what all the lawyers are trying to do because the lawyers are just acting and you know they’re trying to prove their case and that’s their job too. And then the judge has to really cut through that and understand all what the lawyers were telling them over the days and days and days that they have to listen to all this and then you know give a judgment on how you know what the best outcome is for all the parties concerned depending on what all the promises that were made before each of them. [00:33:02] Right. So that’s for Canada as a whole which leads to my last question is about you personally as well. I like how you go into the philosophy world away from getting on you know who you are. And your last question is