Unapologetically Canadian Episode 11: Julie Quenneville
As Breast Cancer month began, I spoke with MUHC Foundation President Julie Quenneville for my podcast. Our discussion can be heard here.
Most of our conversation covers the needs met by the annual Enchantée fundraiser for the MUHC Breast Clinic wellness program. This year’s event takes place next Thursday, October 18th, 2018 at the Le Mount Stephen from 6:00-8:00 p.m.
Tickets cost $200 each and can be purchased online.
The event is important enough for Montreal that I also prepared a story for the Suburban.
Julie and I are friends and members of the same club, so you’ll probably notice that some of my questions reflect a deep admiration of her work. Yet I’ve never before heard her talk about her Canadian identity and her work with the Banff Forum trying to figure out why kind of country we want to live in. Just goes to show you that podcasts can reveal fascinating facets of people.
Here’s the transcript of our conversation.
How does Enchantée fit in with all of the rest of the fundraising you do at the MUHC?
Julie Quenneville: [00:01:09] So we do a lot of fundraising that is globally for the priority needs of the MUHC. And we also do some very targeted fundraising that is for certain diseases departments and linked to of course the priority needs of those areas. So this event is particular to support the breast center and its own priorities. It’s a great opportunity to engage not only the staff, the physicians but also the patients and their families in a fundraising initiative. So when you’re very targeted, it allows them to feel like they’re giving back and really working towards a common goal. It can be quite empowering for the patients.
How did it start?
[00:02:01] Well it was the committee that the three co-chairs actually sitting down with physicians and it started off with very specific needs. So not people in general but a need that is not being met in the community and that’s lymphedema. Have you ever heard of that? [00:02:20] No.Lymphedema
[00:02:22] Lymphedema is an absolutely terrible swelling basically of the arms and the legs that happens after surgery when you remove lymph nodes. It affects about 25 percent of breast cancer survivors who post-surgery will have this swelling. There is absolutely no cure for it and the only thing that we can do is to manage the disease through obviously early diagnosis always essential but also through physiotherapy. So you manipulate the affected areas and there are also some bandages. So the government recently decided to cover the bandages, at least a portion of the bandages that the patients need. But it’s still unfortunately not covering the actual physiotherapy that relieves the pain. And you can take a look on the internet what Lymphedema looks like. But it is life changing for the patients. Many of them don’t want to leave home anymore.And so we actually have the Canadian lead physician who has been really leading the battle to get lymphedema care covered across the country. Her name is Dr. Anna Tower. And so it was in meetings obviously with Doctor Tower throughout the last couple of years, our foundation has always covered those services. I would say probably for the last decade. And in the breast center, we cover the services for our patients as well. And so anyone who is afflicted with this is at least will have access to care.
Now that’s not good enough. I think everyone else in the province should have access, but at least we’re doing our part in making sure that our patients are taken care of.
So the conversation started with lymphedema and saying to ourselves well with the patients how do we make sure that these services continue because they’re not covered by government and what else can we do to not only improve the survival rate but also improve their quality of life post-surgery and treatment?
[00:04:30] So I just looked at a picture of what lymphedema is. This is extreme. The picture I’m looking at looks extreme in various ways. One just makes it look kind of blotty and then right up to legs that are clearly five times bigger than what they were prior to the disease. [00:04:59] For breast cancer patients, it would be mostly the arms, because it’s in the areas that you remove the lymph nodes, and in breast cancer that would be the arms. But it’s a high number 25 percent. In all the cancers, ovarian cancer and breast cancer, patients are the most affected by this. [00:08:32] I can see why they don’t want to leave home. They’ve become a whole different person and they’ve already just gone through a very traumatic situation anyway because they’ve just survived breast cancer. [00:08:40] Their quality of life is affected.
Co-chairs Cynthia Price Verreault, Jo Anne Kelly Rudy and Anna Capobianco-Skipworth
So we have three co-chairs. So Cynthia Price and Jo Anne Rudy have been heavily involved in the Quebec Breast Cancer Foundation throughout probably the last 20 years and Anna is a breast cancer survivor. So you know they were personally touched by these issues.
So, on top of the lymphedema services, the funds raised from this event—this is the second annual event—are going to the wellness program.
Wellness Program Services
So that includes lymphedema but it also goes above and beyond. It includes:
- Resource guides to help patient education. It’s you know a very very stressful time to be diagnosed to go through the treatments. So we want to be able to help our patients and their families through that process.
- Preoperative kinesiology support sessions. So this is again we have proven through our research projects that providing kinesiology before surgery actually helps them recover afterwards. And we have a research project right now at the breast center that is actually verifying if physiotherapy before the surgery will reduce the risk of lymphodema for example. So we’re looking at all the preop care, which is so key. But again this is not something that is covered by our regular health care.
- Post-operative support services. Again from looking through what does that mean for patients? Well you know that’s the nutritionist and the psychosocial so all of those areas that really help the entire patient.
Now I noticed last year you raised 120,000 dollars.
Exactly. That was our first event.
Yeah and how many patients would that cover
I don’t know off the top of my head but we can certainly pull that number and get back to you.
Event Location
Okay perfect. And I noticed that this particular event is taking place at the Mount Stephen on October 18, which is a pretty good location. Was it there last year as well?
[00:10:31]It was there last year as well. They’ve been a very good partner. It’s a very nice place and as you know it’s important in these fundraising events to find something that is central and is a bit different from other events. [00:10:39] So you had 200 guests last year. Do you know how many people are reserved so far this year? [00:10:43] We’re still in the middle of the sale. So we’re still confident to be able to surpass last year.Fundraising Partners
[00:10:50] I noticed that some of the other partners in this, in addition to the MUHC itself and McGill University, of course, include the Goodman Cancer Centre, the Genome Centre, and the Rossy Cancer Network. Can you tell me a little bit about what each of those groups does?So this year we’ve added a partner foundation. We’re always striving to collaborate with others because that’s the best way to help our patients. So the Cedar’s Cancer Foundation, which is a foundation of the MUHC, has joined forces with us to make this event even more successful. The Cedar Cancer Foundation is heavily involved with the Rossy Cancer Network, which you know if you look back in past announcements, is funded obviously by the Rossy family and is a way to break down the silos between the MUHC, McGill, JJH and St. Mary’s for Cancer Care and all of the foundations related also contribute to the pot. Any time there is a funded project everyone is engaged and everyone contributes financially, including the Rossy Network.
[00:11:35] OK. So then you have a network of people who are already behind your project when it gets launched.In all of cancer, because the patients flow through these various areas, you know we have incredible complementarity where we don’t duplicate the services. There are certain cancers which we are specialized in. Certain cancers will go to the Jewish. And of course, there are some cancers that go to St. Mary’s. So this way we make sure that the patients are always in the best place and are being treated by the best team possible for their cancer.
[00:11:59] Did you find last year that there were new partners this year because of the event last year? [00:12:06] Well it allowed us to start a conversation. And that’s that’s the key right? Even though we’re not raising millions through a fund-raising event, it allows us to meet patients who are interested in giving back and interested in getting involved. Absolutely there were many conversations that went in other directions and many many of the attendees became important donors as well to the program. [00:12:27] Well and then what happens in your job I think we have got a higher level in your job you actually handle a heck of a lot of events. How do you handle it? I mean just give me a sort of an overview of a day in your life it can’t be easy because everything is so emotional. I mean you’re dealing with life and death.Julie’s Mission
[00:12:40] It’s funny that you say that and you know everyone in the foundation all the staff are also patients. Our board of directors are also patients. Our physicians are so dedicated and so passionate about their work. So every meeting I go to everyone is striving to make things move and save more patients. So it is not a job, it’s more of a mission. And then when I come home and I wasn’t successful in bringing a gift, it is not… It really hits us emotionally because we want to be able to solve this problem. When you meet your first patient with lymphedema, for example, when you come home at night it’s hard to let that go. You just want to go back to work and try to find another solution try to find more money to be able to provide additional care.So a day in my life is every day I meet physicians, nurses or patients who are looking to work together to find solutions. But it’s also empowering Tracey.
There’s always no one of the things I learned in being in health care for this long is that there’s always a way to make it work. If you get everybody around the table engaged in finding a solution, you do find a solution, and that’s empowering.
[00:13:43] Can you give me an example of something like that? Perhaps something not connected to this event. But in terms of something that looks like a very difficult situation that you were able to find a solution?Centre for Innovative Medicine
[00:13:53] So we have a physician at the MUHC who is specialized in rare rare genetic diseases and because of his expertise, we get patients from all around the province. We’re also the only place one of the only places in the world to have a Centre for innovative medicine which is an area dedicated 100 percent to clinical trials.So he had a patient at one point and there were quite a few publications around this case, who came from one of the regions of Quebec so out of the McGill Territory who was 32 years and who was in palliative care at the time and no physician he had seen was able to identify the source so they had to put him into palliative care. For a father, that’s difficult to swallow at 32 years old. It turns out what he had was basically thrush in his brain. It’s really hard to get rid of thrush. It turns out that through the work that our physician did, he mixed medication and eventually he found that a mixture of two medications for other diseases actually worked for this patient and he was sent home to be with his family. And this is a physician that we fund heavily because of course, this kind of research is so ultra=specialized that it takes a lot of tender loving care but it’s very encouraging because it reminds us that we are able to pull off miracles when we have dedicated people.
So is that patient is still alive. Has he become one of your donors?
I can’t tell you that, because obviously, that information is confidential.
[00:15:23] But he is certainly unbelievably grateful and I’m sure every time he tells his story about what happened to him and his family it is important for the hospital and also important for Montreal.It is a very very very powerful story and it shows that if you keep working hard, there are miracles. Not very many people think about a fundraiser as a miracle worker.
Making the Difference between Quality and Excellence
Well, we make the difference as a foundation we make the difference between quality and excellence. We fund innovation.
[00:16:04] There is no government budget to fund innovation. That is really the drive that the community has. There’s also no budget in the government for development of new equipment. So when there’s a piece of equipment a new piece of technology on the market, the foundations support that. The existing budget is really just for the replacement of the existing platform. So what we do is we make the difference between quality care and excellent care which is what we all want and what we should all demand. [00:16:37] And well how much do you have specific about how much your foundation supports above and beyond the budget of the MUHC. [00:16:50It’s important to note that we don’t fund items that are covered in the operating budget. We always cover what’s above and beyond. So just to make sure that we don’t confuse that. We raised last year 24 billion in revenue plus our investments. So that was a record-breaking year for us. That’s a 25 percent increase in revenue. [00:17:17] Congratulations.Thank you.
How long have you been there?
[00:17:24] It’ll be three years in October.So that result is really in part due to your leadership. You can take credit for a lot of that.
Engaged Board Members
[00:17:34] Well, it is due to the team and the board. We have an absolutely exceptional board. You can take a look at the list online. In the last year alone, we have brought in a lot of really big important new names and a lot of Francophones as well, which is important to note. Many Francophone leaders are really supporting the MUHC and helping to raise funds and helping to engage the Francophone community. To give you an example, Michèle Boisvert, who is executive vice-president of the Caisse de Dépot has just joined. Marc Parent, who’s president of CAE also joined. So these are really important folks in the community.It’s thanks to the entire team, the staff, the board and the physicians who are working with us that we were able to have that kind of success.
[00:18:29] Now donors are all patients.Do you have a relationship with any of the francophone funders or foundations? Do you do any joint projects?
[00:18:50] So we’ve had a very long joint corporate campaign with the CHUM Foundation and this was to build the two new hospitals. It was a great success. We had a wonderful collaboration between the two foundations and the two institutions and we have you know we are preparing now for our next big fund-raising initiatives and some of them will be in collaboration not only with them but we hope with other hospitals across the province. The funding agents across the country for research are asking for it and the donors are asking for it as well that we work more and more together. So we plan to do that.Fundraising Compared to Journalism
[00:19:32] OK. And now just on the personal side, you used to be a journalist and you’ve moved to a different world. What kind of, I assume that the adrenaline is similar, because you have so much emotion in your job, but it’s a different kind, other than talking to a journalist like me. [00:19:56] I’m going to speak very honestly to you. When I was a journalist because I’m an incredibly passionate person as you know. I found it very difficult to cover the story but not be involved in it. And what I find now is that I have an opportunity to actually have a direct impact on my community and it’s hands-on. And so it is very similar in terms of how you tell the story that has the impact, that you engage the community. But it’s just a different step in getting actively involved in mobilizing people to have an impact on the community. [00:20:41] Well and it’s also similar in that you have to be a thoughtful and accurate spokesperson and willing to say I don’t know when you don’t know. [00:20:54] Absolutely. And you know we’re striving to we’re striving to mobilize as many people as possible. If you think about it, we’re the second most important research hospital in the country right after UHM in Toronto. We have 700,000 patient visitors at the Glen alone, 500,000 of those adults. Those are big numbers. There are a lot of people who can work together and have a desire to work together to improve care for the community. So what our objective is simply to help them work together and help mobilize them. [00:21:42] Yeah well I’m glad that you pointed that out to that. I think there’s a very important and to give an idea of the kind of scope of the projects you are working on. This is one event in a very large fundraising effort. It’s an important event because it’s a targeted event. [00:22:03] Yes exactly. Absolutely. And in order to operate the entire initiative I’ve mentioned to you, we need about $300,000 dollars per year, which the foundation supports. So those are also big numbers. [00:22:18] Wow. Yeah, that’s a big gap.Do you consider yourself a Canadian? And if so what does that mean to you?
[00:22:39] I absolutely consider myself a Canadian—a Canadian first and a Quebecker and of course a Montrealer as well. And I think that that defines us. Canadians are very different and I think with what we’re seeing with our neighbours down south, it seems to from my perception have reaffirmed the differences between being Canadian and others around the world and we have a tendency towards being more diplomatic, more engaging and collaborative and those are things that I strive to do every day at work and at home with my personal life.I also sit on the board of directors with a really important group called the Banff Forum where we strive to find solutions to break down those barriers across the country from east to west. We’re meeting next week and this is part of on my personal time one of the areas that I find most important and I hope to be able to contribute.
The Banff Forum
[00:24:03] Oh can you talk a little bit about the Banff Forum? [00:24:12] Well the Banff Forum is an organization that was created by a small group of Canadians after the referendum in 95. The idea behind it was really to engage Canadians across the country to break down those barriers and have everybody working together. There’s a lack of communication in the past so that was really important to get people around the country. It’s really targeted at younger Canadians. It was founded officially in 2002.We should be defining what kind of country we want to live in in the next 20, 30 years. So it’s a group of very very passionate young Canadians.
Although I’m not so young, they are very young and very engaged. We meet officially for a conference once a year, but we have many chapter provincial meetings as well and seminars. We talk about the environment and indigenous issues. We talk about politics. Many politicians from every party come and speak with us as well to be able to have that diversity of conversation. We talk about culture. And it’s really about building that curiosity and seeking solutions and all of the members who—we are very careful to welcome the members that represent different diversity of different age groups and different cultural backgrounds and make sure that these are all individuals that are also incredibly engaged in their communities and so they bring back this information and knowledge to their own work into their networks.
And so the meeting next week is actually in Yellowknife. We’re going to Inuvik first and then in Yellowknife. We’ll be visiting from villages communities and we’ll be hearing from them are their challenges and seeing it for ourselves. I’m hoping to have some time to go visit some of the clinics that are there as well. And somehow, of course, it’s impossible not to have an impact on perception.
[00:26:40] We’re all very anxious to hear from them Yeah exactly. Well, will you have any presentations about your experience in the future?None are planned.
[00:26:53] This is a closed group because we want to make sure that everyone can speak very openly. But of course, you know you cannot leave such an event without changing as a person in your own perception changes. So I’d be happy to speak with you afterwards if you’d like. [00:27:14] That would be wonderful thank you very much.Women Heroines during WWI
During World War I, 4,000 people, many of them women, assembled eight million fuzes in a building locally known as “La Poudrière.” Given that the job required mounting a detonator cap over a gunpowder relay charge and attaching a safety pin (read more about WWI fuses here), the job was risky and monotonous at the same time.
Who were these people? How can we honour their work?
Recently, I was looking through the records of World War I soldiers and realized that their records may offer us ways to perhaps figure out who some of our homefront heroines are too. I discovered several women who moved to Verdun within walking distance of the armament plant while their husbands or brothers served overseas.
When Ethel Henrietta Murray’s husband Patrick volunteered for the Canadian Over-Seas Expeditionary Force on Wednesday, April 12, 1916, the couple lived at 80 Anderson Street, in downtown Montreal.[1]
According to his military records, by the time he died on October 29, 1917, driving with the 4th Brigade of the Canadian Field Artillery, her first name was Henrietta and she had moved to 1251 Wellington Street. Later, she lived at 956 Ethel Street.[2]
None of her addresses exist anymore, nor have I yet found any evidence explaining why she moved to Verdun. Based on her address and circumstances, however, I suspect that she—and three other women who lived nearby—worked at “la poudrière.”
La Poudrière is the local colloquial name for a building that currently houses 64 units for senior citizens. The Canadien Slavowic Association (l’Association canadienne slave de Montréal) operates the space.
I also haven’t yet looked into the records of the company to find out if there is a list of employees so that I can see if Ethel or Henrietta Murray appears on their rolls.
Other women I’d like to verify include Marjorie Victoria Stroude Luker, Ellen or Helen Elizabeth Winsper, and Mrs. John Sullivan. These three women also lived within walking distance of la poudrière between 1916 and 1919.
Military records include the addresses of these women because all of them received telegrams about loved ones being wounded or killed overseas.
Marjorie’s husband Arthur was wounded in Italy on August 20, 1917, and then died of the flu in Belgium on December 2018. Although the couple lived in Point St. Charles when he signed up, her benefits were sent to her at 714 Ethel Street by the time he died.[3]
Ellen or Helen Elizabeth Winsper, the wife of George Winsper who died on November 7, 1917, had moved from Rosemont to 196 St. Charles Street in Pointe St. Charles by the time he died.[4]
Two records mention the grief of Mrs. John Sullivan when Private William Wright, a steamfitter from Scotland, died in action at St. Julien on April 24, 1915. Neither have her first name. One document describes William, who was 21 when he died as the adopted child of Mr. and Mrs. John Sullivan. Another one, and the one I think is more correct, mentions that she is his sister. Her address at the beginning of the war was 9 Farm Street, Point St. Charles, the same as his when he enlisted. His medals were sent to her at 431A Wellington St., Point St. Charles.[5]
If these women worked together, as is possible, they too risked their lives.
Employees with the British Munition Supply Company–which was created by The British Government under the auspices of The Imperial Munitions Board–faced the possibility of accidental explosions. Britain paid $175,000 in 1916 to construct a building that could contain shockwaves. It also included a saw-tooth roof to prevent sunlight from entering.[6]
One description of their work comes from the biography of Sir Charles Gordon, who led the team that arranged for building construction.
The IMB had inherited from Sir Samuel Hughes’s Shell Committee orders for artillery shells worth more than $282 million, contracts with over 400 different factories, and supervision of the manufacture of tens of millions of shells and ancillary parts. Its most serious problem was acquiring time and graze, or percussion, fuses for the shells produced by its factories. There was no capacity to create and assemble these precision parts in Canada, and contracts with American companies had proved dismal failures. The problem was given to Gordon to solve. He recommended that fuse manufacturing be done in Canada. The IMB set up its own factory in Verdun (Montreal) to make the delicate time fuses. Skilled workmen and supervisors were quickly brought over from Britain to train Canadian workers. British Munitions Limited, the IMB’s first “national factory,” was open for business by the spring of 1916. The last order from Britain, for 3,000,000 fuses, came in 1917 and the last fuses were shipped in May 1918. British Munitions was then converted by the IMB into a shell-manufacturing facility.[7]
Another source I read said that Dominion Textile Company purchased the site for its textile operations when the war ended in 1919. Two decades later, Defence Industries Limited revived the site for a shell factory during World War II, between 1940 and 1945. David Fennario’s book “Motherhouse” offers a good look at the women’s lives during this second wartime era.
[1] Attestation Paper, Library and Archives Canada, RG 150, #347740, Patrick Murray, a derivative copy of the original signed by Patrick.
[2] Address card, ibid.
[3] Attestation Paper and address card, Library and Archives Canada, RG 150, #1054006, Arthur Luker.
[4] Attestation Paper and address card, Library and Archives Canada, RG 150, #920146, George Winsper.
[5] Library and Archives Canada, RG 150, #26024, William Wright.
[6] “Usine à munitions pour retraités slaves” by Raphaël Dallaire Ferland, ttps://www.ledevoir.com/societe/354100/usine-a-munitions-pour-retraites-slaves, accessed September 22, 2018.
[7] Biography – GORDON, SIR CHARLES BLAIR – Volume XVI (1931-1940) – Dictionary of Canadian Biography, http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/gordon_charles_blair_16F.html, accessed September 22, 2018.
Unapologetically Canadian Episode 10: Alternative Investing with Bradley Semmelhaack
This week, I’m publishing my interview with Brad Semmelhack, a portfolio manager with Crystalline Management, an alternative investment house in Montreal. Crystalline celebrates 20 years of existence this month. Congratulations, Mark, Brad and the team.
Brad and I spoke in a room at the top of a tower on Sherbrooke Street looking out over the city. It was stunningly beautiful.
Listen to Unapologetically Canadian Episode 10: Alternative Investing with Bradley SemmelhaackA transcript of our conversation follows, but if, like me, you want to brush up on some finance industry basics first, check out investment basics from the Financial Consumer Agency, the pdf “Investment at a glance” from the Canadian Securities Administrators and the Bank of Canada’s portrait of hedge funds in Canada.
Here’s the transcript:
[00:01:25] Thank you Tracey. Yeah, Crystalline. We’re actually celebrating our 20th year and it was founded by my partner and CEO Marc Amirault who had worked for 15 years at the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec and decided to take the strategy that he was implementing at the Caisse to a smaller business to fulfill a dream if you will and to be able to have more flexibility and do his own thing really and be independent.
Brad’s Career
[00:02:00] I come from a background where my dad started on the floor of the Montreal exchange in 1955. I joined him in 1994 after having planted trees for six years and then was hired ten years later when Mark was able to he actually got tired of having me call him about 10 or 15 times a day with an idea and thought it’d be much simpler if I just turned around and given the ideas that I had to pick up the phone. [00:02:27] So anyway that’s sort of how I got here. I started covering my dad’s clients in 94 and then when these hedge fund things started becoming more prevalent, as a salesman I decided to go with the new thing whereas all the other salesmen decided to stick with the old stuff and when I started pulling in some decent numbers, heads started turning and I was able to capitalize on the positioning I’d had made in the innovative fashion but ultimately got got picked up and moved from what we call the sell side, which is the brokers, to the buy side, which is the money managers and I’ve been here for 14 years now and will be celebrating as I said 20 years of Lane in September we have our party. So that’s a little bit of how I got here. [00:03:18] Wow. And when you say innovative I don’t know what. So tell me what kinds of innovations are. [00:03:26] Well it was I mean hedge funds were trying to innovate in general.Money Management Styles
[00:03:34] The traditional money management is what we call a long only. You go and you invest in an instrument of public debt or equity. And if it goes up you mark your wealth up and if it goes down well you mark your wealth down and then it depends on where you sell if you crystallize that profit or loss. [00:04:05] What we what we do here is more we call it arbitrage and the irony of all this is when I was doing finance at McGill there was a professor who said ‘arbitrage, there is no arbitrage. There is no free lunch you never find this.” [00:04:25] And I always wanted to go back and tell and well you know what I’ve been doing arbitration for 14 years. And in fact, it does exist and I think with the prevalence of high-frequency trading, which is pure pure arbitrage, there are ways of–it’s not really riskless it’s never a riskless profit–but certainly you can hedge out or you can… [00:04:51] Really what it is a different silo of risk where you’re using different instruments and the relative legal attachment that each one has to that designate how one is priced relative to the other. And in that way, you can pull out inefficiencies in the market between different all the different actors in capital markets because each one works in a different silo typically and don’t always look at these relationships. [00:05:28] So if you can straddle all the different players, you can often you can often eek out a small profit from inefficiencies and people say oh wow you’re you’re you’re strategies are so complex and it’s so complicated and I just don’t understand the math and I fire back ‘you know these people who do long only, they typically research companies for a month or two or three or years before investing and then they have to follow those companies on a day-to-day basis. The news, what’s going on what’s going on in the industry what’s going on in the economy, who the actors are in capital markets, what the Mr. Market thinks. You know. [00:06:14] I just look at relative pricing. Really it’s a mathematical equation really understood understanding in a very detailed fashion the relationship between different instruments in the capital structure of a company and that is available in capital markets where, whether it be options or we don’t do futures, but options or bonds or convertible bonds or equities or preference shares. [00:06:44] So you try and tie all those things together whereas in general all those different instruments are only looked at by people only looking at that one piece of the capital structure. [00:07:00] So you’re actually doing entire groups of investments in order to take advantage of all that. Is that what you mean? [00:07:06] Yeah you pair off or sometimes in one case we have 12 lines on one company. So you have the convertible bond, you’re long on the convertible bond and then you’re short a whole series of calls and then you’re short the equity. In another case, I’m long one bond short another bond and along the equity. You know in some cases, I’ll just do the preferreds. I’ve done one preferred against another that’s a little bit more common. One bond against another. There are quite a few people doing that. That’s more or more typical but I won’t go sort of like a long short fund would be long one bank versus the other thinking that one bank is going to outperform the other somehow. We don’t…there’s no real attachment there and legal attachment whereas, in the case of a convertible bond or a warrant or an option, there’s a legal attachment between the two. In the case of merger arbitrage there is a legally binding deal between two parties that, should it be consumed based on certain criteria, one security will become the other or cash.Risk
[00:08:16] So that’s the other type of that’s the other type of I mean there’s always where when I said before, there’s always risk while the risk there is that the is consumed as we saw in the case of AECON last month I believe. [00:08:30] You know the Canadian Government did not allow a Chinese entity to take over a Canadian engineering firm so that there was the risk there. [00:08:40] In other cases, it can be as simple as just this morning Superior Propane bought the assets of a US company that had propane distribution and the result of that was that that company was able to redeem their bonds. So now I took the position that that transaction was going to be consumed so I bought the bonds that the company had suggested maybe repurchased should the transaction be consumed. [00:09:15] Okay so that when they were reported… [00:09:18] Yeah. So once the deal is consumed, they go and then they officially make the announcement. [00:09:25] So what have really what it really boils down to is the different investment vehicles land you in different risk buckets so that’s when typically money managers talk about a split. They talk of a 65 35 stock-bond split and then within the stocks you have big cap, small cap, foreign holdings, etc. [00:09:49] We’re a different risk bucket, so we allow investors that choose to invest with us a third alternative which is a further diversification out of that bond stock typical you know very tried and true if you would that’s been around forever the versification mix. You can broaden that out and in certain cases they broaden it out very wide into different buckets and there’s private equity and there are infrastructure and real estate commodities and then you can different plan sponsors break those out in different ways but basically we fall the we fall sometimes in the bond allocation sometimes in the alternative allocation sometimes in the hedge fund allocation but our clients typically you know they have they have and they have an allocation for that allows for they have a mandate to diversify their investments in order to try and control the chance of loss of capital.Who are your clients?
[00:11:08] Well we have we have mom and pops and we have retirees and we have big pension funds. It goes across the gamut just people that want to diversify outside or within depending on your philosophy that that mix depend just depending on how they want to allocate to their asset mix what asset mix they determine and how they how they want to implement it. [00:11:37] So at some places, you’re it to creating a kind of a new movement in a different kind of investing. [00:11:43] Yeah I mean and alternatives you know it’s it’s it’s not really new. Keeping up with the Joneses from the 50s is actually Jones had a hedge fund. [00:11:51] Oh really. I didn’t know that. [00:11:54] And he wasn’t even the first hedge fund. The term hedge fund is a misnomer really because a lot of people don’t do any hedging. It simply usually falls under a different rule that allows people to invest. [00:12:16] So you have certain rules that you invest that anyone can invest and hedge funds are somewhat more restricted in who can invest and what those vehicles and the rules under which those vehicles exist. So that the rules are both very onerous and are very well-defined but are just not the same. There are very similar rules for the most part. [00:12:44] And then when it gets into the fine print in the details, the rules are not quite the same. [00:12:50] So we fall under the private placement rules and so our potential investors are more restricted whereas say a mutual fund or anything that’s on the listed stock market it falls under the anyone can invest in them. And there are just two different sets of rules they fall under two different sections of the investment acts and the and the regulations.Typical Day
[00:13:16] Okay. And so in terms of a typical day when I arrived, I was kind of surprised you have six screens in front of you. Pretty much everybody in the place has six screens in front of them. What does a typical day look like? Other than, when I arrived there were only two screens of the six that were on. [Note: my photo belies my words, as all 6 screens are clearly on.] [00:13:39] I might have been to just come back and get a coffee. But yeah I know all six. Typically I mean I try and put different things on different screens but often I might have a spreadsheet that takes up even more than all of the six screens. [00:13:54] So, is it all math? What do you as a person.What do you actually do?
[00:14:01] Math is a model. But you need to read a lot of an awful lot of text before you can before you can see how to put into mathematical into a mathematical model or programming language what that those documents what that reading is telling you. Like I was going through the the the indentures which are hundreds of pages long to try and figure out how to model the Superior Propane and New Alta how to model how the what math to use to figure out how much I can pay for those bonds. And you got you’ve got an awful lot of text to go through to try and figure out what numbers to put where. And then once you figure that out, then you can put the numbers in. But I had discussions with three different dealers who give me three different interpretations of those documents and it was up to me to finally read them and decide how I was going to interpret it. And when you when you actually walked in I was trying to get the person on the phone who could answer that question at the company because the company put out a press release that said we will call them in the normal course according to the indenture period. And the indenture being 150 pages long and cross-referencing between six different sections and subsections and sub-articles and definitions and preambles and supplemental indentures and revisions. It got rather complicated rather quickly. [00:15:33] So like many jobs, you turned into a detective. [00:15:35] That’s a good way of putting it. You really have to be a detective because there are a lot of things that companies can say and a lot of things companies cannot say. And you have to do a whole lot of a whole lot of thinking and a whole lot of deductive use a whole lot of detective work to find the information and then a whole lot of reasoning to come to a likely set of outcomes and the likelihood each of them is going to come to pass and then making a decision as to whether you can live with the possibilities for the different outcomes. [00:16:17] Wow OK. That’s a cool way of putting it. Anything else about your day that you want to describe? [00:16:25] Well first thing first is that you always come in and have a great big cup of coffee. [00:16:30] The coffee machine here is good I suppose. [00:16:33] We actually have five of them. Very important to have coffee.How many employees do you have?
[00:16:40] We started Mark started alone and then he hired one more and one more and then we were after that we were four and then six and then we got up to with interns about 20 and now we are 16 and we’ll probably end up around 18 by the end of the year. That is kind of the vision for now. Plus or minus maybe some part-time or interns or what have you. But yeah I mean there’s everything a big part of any organization is compliance. You know there’s maybe five or six people who are actual full-time job is investing and then five actually right now and then everybody else–the other 11–do accounting, compliance, sales marketing and what have you. [00:17:40] So it’s it’s really it’s really a big process to keep to keep track of all this and then that’s not to that’s not even to mention all the people in prime brokerage and all the dealers who call me all day long and then all our suppliers in terms of lawyers and accountants consultants and you know then all theRegulatory Oversight
You know there’s got to be five or six different regulators that oversee us between people who are looking for tax evaders in the United States, terrorists who are trying and trying to hide their money in different places, etc. The AMF we’re trying to make sure that we do things according to the rules the RCMP are making sure that we’re not that there are no fraudsters.
[00:18:29] You know we get an awful lot of people. I’m often told. Hey, you hedge funds you’re not you’re not regulated. Nobody oversees you and I’m like OK how many times you’ve been audited in the last 20 years? And they’ll say oh I don’t know auditors by the AMF. Well, maybe once or twice and I’ll say they typically come in here every four years. And the last time they spent three weeks, four of them. [00:18:48] So wow. So please don’t tell me that I am not regulated because they went through every single piece of paper we had with a fine tooth comb and they made sure that everything was was on the level and copacetic and cross-referenced.What do you want people to know about the financial industry and how it works?
[00:19:18] Well I mean. [00:19:19] This is a Canadian company. It’s you know it’s in the middle of Montreal but you work internationally. [00:19:28] Yeah we invest in. We specialize. We initially specialized in Canadian arbitrage when we started out with one point five million dollars and then pretty much when we hit 50 we had to start looking outside of Canada because you really want to take the very best ideas. We don’t you know we don’t have to invest in anything. There are no constraints really. We can take. We like to be able to take really the cream creme de la creme the very top easiest fruit we can take. It takes you know maybe a little more time to research but they really have a strong conviction about even though there may be 500 positions in the portfolio, you know like I said there can be 12 positions that makeup one strategy or investment in one more pointed idea really. So you have to have a pretty broad universe to go and find those ideas and then and then be able to follow them and have public information and so on. It’s really yeah so past 50 till now, there’s a little more in the US and we broadened bit by bit what we do in each of those markets. [00:20:58] So that now there’s probably you know maybe 20 sub-strategies I think we have that are defined in three large silos of fixed income arbitrage, merger arbitrage and convertible arbitrage. I don’t know if I answered your question. [00:21:20] No you didn’t. Good. [00:21:21] Good aside you explain to me how your work within the financial industry but you didn’t tell me what you want people to know about that. [00:21:29] OK so yeah I mean I think I mentioned before that you know hedge funds are regulated just like everybody else. [00:21:38] And in my in my estimation, more so but I think my many of my competitors would disagree. Everybody is overseen. Everybody has a different spin on how they’re doing things and you know for that for the hugest part everybody is really trying to do their best and offer something that is in the best interest of the clients. But everybody is doing a jaw. It’s like it’s like going into it it’s like going into any store and buying anything. I mean you go into a food store and the greengrocer does not want you to get sick on his cabbages. [00:22:22] But you know sometimes cabbages get in there that might be a little bit rotten. [00:22:26] And he didn’t see it or you know maybe he’s got a bad cabbage and he paid for them and he’s got to get rid of them. [00:22:35] He knows they’re going to be bad in a week. So he puts them in the front to try and get rid of those ones first. But really the freshest ones are at the bottom or if you go into a depanneur or you know the freshest milk is in the back and the less fresh milk is in the front. I mean is that unethical? [00:22:53] You know I’m trying to find an anecdote to you know people do act in the best interest, but at the end of the day no matter how many consultants and advisers and everything you’ve got to you’ve got to be able to have a good gut feel about who you are who you’re dealing with and check them out. [00:23:15] I mean you know there are you’ve got you got to make sure you feel comfortable because you know it’s really hard to stay away from it’s usually no. It’s usually pretty easy to stay away from the Earl Joneses and the Madoff’s but they do creep in there every once in a while. But it’s more ending up with someone who you feel uncomfortable dealing with and you’re not quite sure who is who interests there are there where the balance is sitting on their best interest and just being comfortable with the service you’re getting. I mean you know it always comes down to a buyer beware. Never forget that no matter how many consultants and lawyers and accountants and everything. [00:24:08] It’s almost like if you ask for too much advice someone is going to say no to something. So you know at the end of the day it’s going to be you. [00:24:16] So you have to have you do have to put on your thinking cap when you’re choosing the right adviser or the right investment. [00:24:24] And and and make sure you are comfortable at all times and as time goes on. [00:24:34] I mean a good anecdote is my life partner who I think it took me it took about four people we had to go through before we finally found someone that she liked dealing with. And they’re all doing a good job there all honest. Know most of them are banks and banks have about the biggest compliance departments in the world. And she you know but it took it took three or four different advisers until she finally found somebody with whom she was comfortable and I’ve recommended you know I’d try and help out friends who ask and I know often give them three or four or five different choices and they’ll choose the person with whom they feel the most comfortable. [00:25:13] And you know once you’ve gone through are they registered and you know are they offering me a product that I that from my best gut makes sense to me and a good plan that that is going to meet my financial goals. You know after that do I actually like sitting down and discussing investments with the person and they seem to be listening to me and do they seem to be acting in my best in my in my self-interest while still carrying on their business. And you know there better not be too much of a conflict of interest there how do you feel about that. [00:25:49] And you know read about conflict of interest and read about how much they’re being paid. [00:25:55] I mean everybody gets paid. You know lawyers get paid up to a thousand dollars an hour you never think twice. Doctors get paid huge amounts. You don’t think of how much you’re paying your accountant or many advisers. You know in the finance industry we do get paid and it’s not. It is becoming much much more transparent as time goes on. [00:26:15] But there is a lot of work that goes on behind it. And you know somebody has to pay for all that compliance and all that oversight. And unfortunately, like most industries, it comes out of the user and that is all part and package of investing in public investments. [00:26:33] Do you go private. [00:26:35] No you can always invest in your own company but then you’re you’re open to the sharks and there’s no one overseeing it. [00:26:43] The public markets are overseen by so many different people and you know there is a premium to pay for that and it all comes out in the wash but in that you have a much better feeling than you can go to bed at night knowing that you’ve excluded ninety-nine point nine nine nine nine nine you know six sigma of the of the bad folks. [00:27:12] It’s interesting that it sort of reminds me of the thing we’re learning about social media which is that if you’re not paying for something if you’re not paying for a product then you are the product so basically you have to have to keep in mind when you’re doing financial purchases as well. [00:27:28] You know when I whenever I talk to someone whenever we have a company and whenever I look at an investment the first thing I have to consider is OKThe person giving me this information, where do they benefit from this?
What is their stake in this and what outcome is best for them? Who has control over this outcome and what’s the best outcome for them. And how much control do they have on making that outcome happen?
[00:27:59] And that’s usually that’s usually the best path towards the most likely outcome no matter how difficult it is to get to that outcome or how unlikely it might seem. That’s usually what comes about. [00:28:16] That’s an awesome answer. It’s a philosophical answer too that it fits into many things, not just finances. [00:28:22] Well it’s just you know it’s amazing that you know the people who control the company if they have a lot of stock that stock that company is not going bankrupt. If they have no stock, the company is likely to go bankrupt. If they own bonds, that portion of the capital structure will be protected. If there’s a bank in there, and the bank owns management, well the bank’s going to be protected. [00:28:59] And anything is possible. And you know even with all the regulatory oversight, it’s very often there are fait accomplit that happens and then once you’re put into that situation, it doesn’t really matter what came before, there’s a new reality and that’s the new reality. [00:29:19] A good example was in the case of Bell Canada when they were supposed to be taken over. Way back over 10 years ago. That was a case that went all the way to the Supreme Court where the bondholders had been assured with personal knowledge personally in their offices staring in the eyes from the management of the company that the company would never ever do anything that would that would risk their investment grade credit. And that’s why it was not necessary to put into writing and legal form protections against a leveraged buyout that would that would compromise the value of those bonds. [00:30:01] And it went all the way to the Supreme Court that the company was allowed to go against the word that they gave. It went back and forth. [00:30:09] That was it was that was the so-so verbal contracts no longer exist at least not, in that case, one or even written contracts today can go against Oh no no. [00:30:21] If any legal laws. I mean we had a bankruptcy where we had to go to court and prove that there was a there where the bank was going to charge for a loan for a loan in bankruptcy too much. [00:30:40] And the judge had approved that because it was a very big company within a very tight spot. [00:30:48] And that was the only option for the company was to accept the terms of that loan and we had to really do an awful lot of legal work in that court to have that amount reduced. Wow. [00:31:05] And it was it was like the judge said yes this loan is too expensive but I’m going to accept it because that’s the company’s the money tomorrow morning if not it stops the company from operating. [00:31:19] And that is you know that is often an overriding principle. And. [00:31:25] OK. So whether that company that is very much like bankruptcy law or whether they were in bankruptcy. [00:31:31] And yeah you have to you know a lot of a lot is often said about capital markets and you know investors want this and investors want that. [00:31:39] But in Canada the responsibility of the people running the company which is ultimately the directors who are who are responsible. Their responsibility is to the corporation and its stakeholders and in the law, that is often applied as being very much including suppliers and employees and the business and the I mean the whole point to law is to allow businesses to continue. So it makes sense that when something comes before a court that the overriding philosophy of a judge should be how is this going to continue? How is this process going to end so that it has the best outcome for the Canadian economy and that is the judges really go to a lot of trouble to try and see through what all the lawyers are trying to do because the lawyers are just acting and you know they’re trying to prove their case and that’s their job too. And then the judge has to really cut through that and understand all what the lawyers were telling them over the days and days and days that they have to listen to all this and then you know give a judgment on how you know what the best outcome is for all the parties concerned depending on what all the promises that were made before each of them. [00:33:02] Right. So that’s for Canada as a whole which leads to my last question is about you personally as well. I like how you go into the philosophy world away from getting on you know who you are. And your last question is